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WW1 artillery shell casing?
Old 07-24-2011, 07:18 AM   #1
Norm F
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Default WW1 artillery shell casing?

Hi Guys,

I posted a question about this WW1 artillery shell casing in the Imperial Military Forum, and I'm adding a link here in case anyone could comment?

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post4772264

Although it's not WW2 does anyone know more about the type of shell shown in that thread?

Best regards,
---Norm
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:48 AM   #2
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Don Doering kindly pointed out this thread in which Mike showed some similar shells that were described as French.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=37mm

What exactly do the markings in the base refer to: 37-85 P.D.P.s 174 1.17? And what gun would have fired this shell?

Best regards,
---Norm
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File Type: jpg shellcasing.jpg (235.8 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg base.jpg (236.5 KB, 179 views)
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm F View Post
What exactly do the markings in the base refer to: 37-85 P.D.P.s 174 1.17? And what gun would have fired this shell?
...
Searching further, I think I have some more to add:
P.D.Ps = PARC d' ARTILLERIE de PARIS
I think "1.17" refers to January 1917 - date of manufacture?

Perhaps fired by a Hotchkiss 37 mm cannon, either single-barrelled or the revolving cannon type? Any other thoughts or clarifications welcome.
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File Type: jpg French-with-37mm-guncloseup.jpg (148.8 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg verdun001.jpg (38.5 KB, 169 views)

Last edited by Norm F; 07-24-2011 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:55 AM   #4
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Hm. I think some controversy as to what P.D.Ps stands for. Some sources suggest it's more likely:
PDP = Parc d'Artillerie de Place de Paris
PDPs = Pinchart Denys, Paris
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:21 AM   #5
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There was an interesting posting on a UK Shooting Community forum here:
http://www.shootingcommunity.co.uk/f...php?f=8&t=5807

Describes this 1 lb Hotchkiss shell, markings and some of the guns which fired it.

So the markings on this are:
P.D.Ps = Pinchart Denys, Paris (the largest manufacturer of shell casings)
37 = 37 mm calibre
85 = 1885, the year this type of shell was first introduced
174 (or other numbers) = the manufacturing lot number
1.17 = the date

Cheers.
---Norm
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File Type: jpg 679px-Hotchkiss_37mm_revolving_canon.jpg (58.8 KB, 169 views)
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:25 AM   #6
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And for completeness :
I understand now the shell I posted comes under the category of "Trench art".
This particular item was passed down in my wife's family from her grandmother who was a nurse in the American Expeditionary Force in 1918 administering anaesthetic in Mobile Hospital No. 4 in La Grange aux Bois and then in Cheppy less than 2 km from Varenne during the Meuse-Argonne Offensive. As you can see it's been engraved "Varennes 1918".

Cheers.
---Norm
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:29 AM   #7
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Did the family keep any of her nursing uniform, pins, photos, etc.?

Chip
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip M View Post
Did the family keep any of her nursing uniform, pins, photos, etc.?

Chip
Hi Chip,

Sadly we're cursed with our retention of heirlooms. My wife used to wear her grandmother's gold nursing pin from Newton Hospital Nursing School in 1913 but it was stolen off of her lab coat. We had a St. Barnabas medal, her AEF dog tag and a small trenching shovel from her which have all been lost over the years.

Here's a photo of her at Camp Devens before going overseas.

Best regards,
---Norm
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:12 PM   #9
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Norm, Chip
Here's a photo you may find interesting. When Sir Maxim was designing his 'Pom-Pom' gun he also used this popular round. 37mmX94R. Basically a large 08! Photo (IWM)
Norm
Wasn't your case made by Pouderies? Or is Pinchart Denys one and the same?

Regards
Eric
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File Type: jpg 800px-QF1pounderGunIWMApril2008.jpg (93.3 KB, 165 views)
File Type: jpg P7240038.jpg (115.9 KB, 166 views)
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Old 07-24-2011, 02:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
Norm, Chip
Here's a photo you may find interesting. When Sir Maxim was designing his 'Pom-Pom' gun he also used this popular round. 37mmX94R. Basically a large 08! Photo (IWM)
Norm
Wasn't your case made by Pouderies? Or is Pinchart Denys one and the same?

Regards
Eric
Interesting pictures Eric. It seems a variety of artillery could use this popular format of round.

But now we have 3 candidates for P.D.Ps:
1) Poudrerie de Paris
2) Parc d'Artillerie de Place de Paris
3) Pinchard Denys, Paris (variety of spellings)

I wonder if anyone has some definitive documentation?

---Norm
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:08 PM   #11
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Did some searching, I,ve always wanted to know myself. Pweeh! confusing!
There,s an old Gent on a French forum (I always trust the old boys) states it as Pinchard Denys, Norm

Confusing because apparently at some point two makers used the same code.
Maybe the answer is in the underscore on the S?

Here are the stamp mark codes:

AMS Workshop Loading Mills
ATE Building Workshop in Toulouse
ECP Central School of Pyrotechnics, Bourges
PD Ps Artillery Park Paris
Px Atelier de Puteaux
SFM French Society of Munitions
T Pyrotechnics Maritime de Toulon
APX Workshop Construction de Puteaux
The Pyrotechnics Maritime de Lorient
PDP Park Artillery Place de Paris
Mons Ste ESF French Society of Munitions

AMS Atelier de Chargement de Moulins
ATE Atelier de construction de Toulouse
ECP Ecole centrale de Pyrotechnie, Bourges
PD Ps Parc d’Artillerie de Paris
Px Atelier de Puteaux
SFM Société Française de Munitions
T Pyrotechnie Maritime de Toulon
APX Atelier de Construction de Puteaux
L Pyrotechnie Maritime de Lorient
PDP Parc d’Artillerie de Place de Paris
Ste Fse Mons Société Française de Munitions

I think these markings are based on a manual dated 1909.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:54 PM   #12
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An interesting shell - great looking photo's thanks for finding and posting.

Before they were made into trench art, the original shell might have looked like this:









Pit.
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